>> Joe Kelley: And let me ask you lastly here, not what is the million dollar question or even the bill? I think what is the trillion dollar question is, was the 2020 election stolen?
>> J. Christian Adams: Well, one thing for sure is they didn’t follow the law. And that gets right back to the issue of fairness. I was, in cases, public interest legal foundation intervened in piles of cases where plaintiffs were colluding, meaning cooking up a resolution with a, friendly blue state attorney general to change the rules in the middle of the game that happened over and over and over. We had the law being ignored in Pennsylvania, in Michigan, in Wisconsin, where, you didn’t have observers allowed in to watch the election, all sorts of shenanigans took place that cannot be repeated if we want to maintain the american ideal of fairness. You can’t break the law when you run an election. And that happened in 2020.
In the latest episode of The Joe Kelley Show podcast, we talk with J. Christian Adams, an attorney with the Public Interest Legal Foundation, to unravel the intricate web of election integrity in the United States. Adams, whose firm is the only one in the country exclusively focused on election law, offers a rare glimpse into the high-stakes legal battles that could determine the future of American democracy.
From the frosty reaches of Alaska to the historic landscapes of Maine, the Public Interest Legal Foundation has been tirelessly litigating cases to uphold the rule of law. As we delve into the conversation, Adams sheds light on a Supreme Court case that has the potential to change the electoral landscape—efforts to remove former President Donald Trump from the Colorado ballot under the claim that the 14th Amendment bars “insurrectionists” from running for office.
Adams argues that not only is this interpretation of the 14th Amendment incorrect—Congress repealed the provision in question twice—but the very act of removing a candidate from the ballot is a destabilizing attack on the foundations of our constitutional democracy. He emphasizes the importance of allowing every candidate the right to appear on the ballot, stating that to do otherwise would be to render the elections unfair.
The conversation takes a turn towards the palpable distrust in the fairness of the upcoming 2024 elections, a sentiment echoed by a recent Suffolk University and USA Today survey. Adams points to the disregard for established law in the previous presidential election as a source of this distrust. He compares it to changing the rules of a game mid-play, undermining the very ideal of fairness that America stands for.
As we reach the crux of the discussion, the trillion-dollar question is posed: Was the 2020 election stolen? Adams’ response is unequivocal: the law was not followed. This, he asserts, is where the true theft occurred—not in the number of ballots cast, but in the systematic collapse of the rule of law.
This episode is more than just a legal analysis; it’s a call to action for every American who believes in the sanctity of the vote and the importance of a fair and just electoral system. Listen now to understand the gravity of the challenges we face and the imperative to restore integrity to our elections.
Don’t miss this critical conversation with J. Christian Adams. Tune in to hear a legal expert’s take on the battles that will shape the future of our nation’s democracy.
Transcript from the podcast episode:
Public interest law firm focuses exclusively on election integrity, on election law
>> J. Christian Adams: Thanks for having me.
>> Joe Kelley: And tell me, first of all, about the public interest legal foundation, the work that you do, and then we’ll get into specifically why we wanted to talk to you today.
>> J. Christian Adams: Right. We’re the only public interest law firm in the country that focuses exclusively on election integrity, on election law. some people do a little. That’s all we do. And, we fight to uphold the rule of law and we litigate cases. Right now, we haven’t gone from this year from Alaska to Maine to Louisiana to Florida, to pretty much everywhere in between, it seems.
There’s an effort to have Donald Trump thrown off the ballot in Colorado
>> Joe Kelley: And Christian, I know that you have filed a brief with the supreme Court, regarding the case that they’re going to hear about the Colorado ballot. Tell me about that.
>> J. Christian Adams: Right. this is going to be decided by the supreme Court. There’s an effort to have Donald Trump thrown off the ballot. And now, normally in America, we don’t do that. We give people a chance to actually vote for their candidate. Of know, we believe in the right to vote for people, but in Colorado, they’re throwing them off the ballot. They’re going to do it in Maine. And they’re claiming that the 14th amendment of the United States, doesn’t allow so called insurrectionists to run for office. And they’ve got it wildly wrong, not the least of which is Congress actually repealed that provision of the 14th amendment, not once, but twice. So it’s not even in effect anymore. in addition to all the other problems, they have to have them thrown off the ballot.
>> Joe Kelley: And is there, though, and I understand what you’re saying, and you’re the legal expert, but is there, though, the possibility that the supreme Court, could not side with Donald Trump on this?
>> J. Christian Adams: Well, of course, there, you know, look, I’ve looked at the law. We don’t tend to get involved in flimsy arguments, at least at public interest legal foundation. And, Hans von Svakowski is one of our clients in this case that we filed the brief on behalf of. and he is a legal scholar at heritage. And I, think it’s pretty clear that no state election official has the power to willy nilly decide a candidate should not appear because they don’t like them. And what they’ve done in the past.
>> Joe Kelley: Now, I see that there is now, ah, an effort to not just stop with Donald Trump and the Colorado ballot. As you mentioned, Maine, there are now a couple of other states, including Massachusetts and Illinois, that are looking at taking Donald Trump off the ballot. There are now some 156 or so republican members of Congress that are being targeted for removal, of the ballots for the exact same reason their engagement or involvement in the so called insurrection from January 6.
>> J. Christian Adams: This shows how destabilizing this effort is to the country to remove a leading presidential candidate from the ballot. It’s the kind of thing the founders understood. Remember, they knew all about the 17th century when they were cutting the heads off kings having revolutions in England, civil wars all over, who was in charge and who could have the levers of power. So the founders knew all this, and that’s why they wrote a constitution that gave the qualifications for president right there in black and white. And if you meet these qualifications, you’re allowed to, you know, it’s a very destabilizing thing when these very partisan ideologues who happen to be secretaries of state in Colorado and Maine, decide on their own to take people off the ballots. Very destabilizing.
>> Joe Kelley: Now, there is, on the subject of election integrity, and if you’re just joining us, we’re talking to Jay Christian Adams. He is an attorney with the Public interest Legal foundation. And there is a new survey that came out from Suffolk University in USA Today, where an alarming level of Americans fear whether or not the 2024 elections are going to be fair. How do you respond to that?
>> J. Christian Adams: Well, the first thing to make them fair is let every candidate appear on the ballot. I mean, this relates to our previous topic. If you’re excluding people from the ballot, then the elections aren’t fair. But, I think what’s also going on in that poll is a general distrust of the transformation that has occurred in how we run elections. I mean, in the last presidential election, we were just ignoring the law. If you follow the law, people think it’s fair. If you ignore the law, it seems unfair. You don’t change the rules of a game you play. A first down isn’t suddenly 15 yards when the other side gets the ball. It’s not how we play in America. So I’m not surprised by that poll, because so many people are trying to rig the system.
>> Joe Kelley: And let me ask you lastly here, not what is the million dollar question or even the bill? I think what is the trillion dollar question is, was the 2020 election stolen?
>> J. Christian Adams: Well, one thing for sure is they didn’t follow the law. And that gets right back to the issue of fairness. I was, in cases, public interest legal foundation intervened in piles of cases where plaintiffs were colluding, meaning cooking up a resolution with a, friendly blue state attorney general to change the rules in the middle of the game that happened over and over and over. We had the law being ignored in Pennsylvania, in Michigan, in Wisconsin, where, you didn’t have observers allowed in to watch the election, all sorts of shenanigans took place that cannot be repeated if we want to maintain the american ideal of fairness. You can’t break the law when you run an election. And that happened in 2020.
>> Joe Kelley: So with regards to those rules that were changed mid game, ostensibly, they were changed because we were in the midst of the pandemic and people were making arguments, mostly Democrats were making arguments that we shouldn’t all be congregating in precincts and polling and voting on the same day and all that other stuff. That was the argument, if I’m not mistaken.
>> J. Christian Adams: Yeah. The same people who said we shouldn’t be allowed to go to church and go to school and everything else. And they also extended that to the right to appear to vote in person. and if you don’t appear, in person to vote, we’re going to break the law to give you the opportunity to vote. That’s basically what happened in 2020. And I think that we now, with the wisdom of hindsight, see what they were up to. They were up to, making a system that had vulnerabilities, that relied on the post office, of all people, to deliver ballots on time. Everything was a mess in 2020. And we learned, who these people are, that following the rules is not a top priority.
>> Joe Kelley: And again, let me kind of circle back and ask lastly, the trillion dollar question about whether or not the election was stolen, if it was provable, and I don’t think anybody doubts what you’re saying. There is no doubt that there were shenanigans that were going on during the 2020 elections. And you’re absolutely spot on when you say they were changing the rules mid game. But if we were to look at it at a post game analysis, so to speak, could the Trump campaign, Trump administration not have proven this in court?
>> J. Christian Adams: Well, look, they didn’t need to prove it in court in the sense that the system was already being cooked against them. I mean, that was easy to prove in court. You didn’t need to prove that x number of ballots were invalid when you had a much bigger fish to fry. And that was the breakdown and the collapse of the entire structure of following the rule of law. That’s where the election was ripped off, was they didn’t follow the rules. If you go and play monopoly with somebody and they’re cheating the whole time, which, by the way, there’s a cheaters edition of Monopoly. Believe it or not, it comes with orange handcuffs. And if somebody’s cheating the whole time, you’re allowed to talk about it, right? You’re allowed to say that they didn’t follow the rules of monopoly. So their win really wasn’t like a good old fashioned win.
>> Joe Kelley: I sure appreciate your time and expertise. We’ve been talking to J. Christian at. He is with the Public Interest Legal foundation. You can find him publicinterestlegal.org. Christian, thank you so much, and happy new year to you.
>> J. Christian Adams: Thank you for having me.