EXCLUSIVE: The truth about the 2020 elections: Ken Block’s unbiased search for voter fraud

Ken Block: Joe. I’m doing great and thanks for having me on.

Ken Block was hired by the Trump campaign to look for voter fraud

Joe Kelley: Now I gotta. I wanna manage expectations here. I, since the day of the election, have believed that Donald Trump lost the election. I’ve never once wavered on who won the election, even though there were some weird things going on prior to the election. I never once doubted the vote count after the election. but I am in a minority, certainly amongst our listeners. Take a listen.

Joe Kelley: Yeah.

Ken Block: Trusting Ken blocked from Rhode island to do a report on voter fraud from the Trump election is like asking a fox to do a report on a number of hens in a henhouse.

Joe Kelley: So why should you know, before we get into what you found, why should anybody believe you?

Ken Block: Well, that’s a good question. I am a, two time candidate for governor here in Rhode Island. I ran for governor here in Rhode island in 2014. As a Republican, I have ten years experience looking at voter data. I was a member of President Trump’s voter, integrity commission back in 2017. 2018. I spent time talking to Vice President Pence’s office about election integrity issues. My data helps to inform lawsuits against states, for how they conduct their elections. And it’s also used to help defend states against lawsuits from, that are brought for various different reasons. So I, know what I’m talking about. My data has won lawsuits because I’ve been able to defend it in court. And when the Trump campaign reached out to me in November of 2020 and asked me to look for voter fraud, they had a very specific purpose for me. They wanted and needed my work to be defendable in court. And you written right into the contract.

Joe Kelley: And you were not some sort of anti Trumper, you were not some sort of never trumper. I mean, you’d already been working with the Trump team.

Ken Block: Yeah, well, I mean, I had nothing to do with the campaign,

Joe Kelley: In.

Ken Block: Any aspect, until they hired me to come on board to look for the voter fraud. look, I’m a database professional. I’m an, acknowledged expert in voter data, in the legal system. And if there was voter fraud, I wanted to be the person to find it. There would be, a big feather in my cap if it was there. But as I told the campaign before we got going, I said, if it’s there, I’ll find it. If it isn’t there, I’m not going to tell you that it was. And what I was told was that they wanted a straight up assessment. They weren’t custom ordering, a set of results. The lawyers that I reported to were doing their due diligence, and I was the person that was doing that due diligence for them.

Joe Kelley: Okay, I only have one more question about why we should trust you. And then what?

Ken Block: We didn’t find enough fraud to have changed any election

I want to move on to the actual data. When I first read about your report and your forthcoming book, and I talked about it on, on this radio show, again, I remember so much skepticism coming from our listeners, and one of whom said, I bet they are holding his family, and he had to report that there was no fraud or something along those lines. So could you, could you inform us, is your family safe?

Joe Kelley: Is, is anybody holding a proverbial gun to your head that is, that is altering how you report on this?

Ken Block: No, not at all. And what’s important for your listeners to understand is that the campaign lawyers I reported to wanted a straight up assessment. They accepted my findings, or lack of findings, as true. They delivered those findings to Mark Meadows, Trump’s chief of staff at the time, who took it all in and accepted all of that as true. So it’s not just my word, and it’s not just the word of the other company that the Trump campaign also hired to look for fraud, and they found nothing. People, up the campaign ladder who were careful and who were doing due diligence all accepted as fact the findings that fraud was not the cause of the loss.

Joe Kelley: And, Ken, to kind of circle back to what you said a few moments ago, if you had discovered concrete evidence of voter fraud, of cheating by the democratic party, I mean, your name would go down in american history. You would become instantaneously, overnight famous and history books would include your name.

Ken Block: Well, of course, and I wasn’t after the fame, obviously, but, it would be a professional feather in the cap to have been the person to have found it. And what I really want your listeners to understand is that, I was prepared to risk my professional and personal reputations on the findings that we delivered. I was ready to go to court and defend these findings in court, which is something that most of the claimants of fraud that we hear about can’t or won’t do. So, you know, that was the mission. And unfortunately, the fraud needed. We found some fraud. I want to be clear. We did, we didn’t find no fraud. But we didn’t find enough fraud to have changed the result in any election.

Joe Kelley: So peel that back a little further. Unpack that. What does it mean when you found some fraud, but not enough fraud to have made a difference? What kind of fraud did you find?

Ken Block: Yeah. So we were hired to look for evidence of deceased voters in the swing states, to look for evidence of duplicate votes cast by voters in one of the swing states and also some other state. and then the day after we signed the contract and got going on that work, the campaign started sending my way claims of voter fraud that others were making. And they’ve asked us to perform their due diligence, determine if those claims were true or false, so that they could become part of a lawsuit. And of the 15 to 20 different claims that we evaluated, some that originated very likely from Sidney Powell, John Eastman, one for a set of lawsuits in Pennsylvania that Rudy Giuliani eventually took part of, we went through them all and were able to show very clearly and carefully why they were wrong based on the data that was available. And some of the lawsuits that were going to be filed didn’t. Some that we determined were false were filed anyway, and were eventually just ejected from the legal system because of defects with, the nature of the complaint.

Joe Kelley: Can you give us an example of a fraud you did find?

Ken Block: Yeah. So, we found, ten to twelve deceased votes cast in most of the swing states. not hundreds, not thousands, but a dozen or less. In fact, what’s interesting, what should be interesting to some of your voters is I think I might have been the only person in the United States to have determined and highlighted some fraudulent votes for deceased people before they were cast in Pennsylvania. As part of a court case. I’m on the record as identifying a, voter who would registered in September of 2020 who was already dead. And I said, that will become a fraudulent vote, and it did. And then after the election, the person who cast that vote was, arrested, charged, and prosecuted successfully.

Joe Kelley: So there has been then some. Some good outcomes with regards to the. To the random voter fraud that you did find.

Ken Block: yes, so the, there were a couple of hundred duplicate votes cast in, the swing states and in some other state, you know, but again, when you needed 10,000 votes or more, you know, the numbers that we’re talking about didn’t come close to rising to the level of holy Mac world is really something going on here, right? There was no evidence of systematized, organized massive fraud sufficient to generate between 10,100 50,000 votes, which is what was going to be needed in Michigan.

Joe Kelley: So, since you’ve failed, if you will, since you failed to come up with evidence of widespread voter fraud that would have overturned the election, are you now Persona non grata with. With team Trump?

Ken Block: I don’t know. I mean, here’s, you know, the thing. I would have been very happy just to keep my peace about all of this, but, the lawyer I reported to ended up being subpoenaed by the January 6 committee. My company’s participation, in all of this was identified in his deposition to the January 6 committee. And I realized at that moment, in 2022, in the summer, that I’d better start working on telling the story, because I didn’t want the January 6 committee or anybody else telling my story with spin.

Joe Kelley: Right.

Ken Block: It’s important to just be straight up factual about what was there and what wasn’t there, which is what I’ve done in the book. And, what I’m doing now, as I talk about it, because the facts are the facts. And when you’re talking about overturning an election, using the legal system to do it, you’ve got to have the facts. And the facts necessary to make that happen simply weren’t there.

Joe Kelley: We’re talking to Ken block. You can find details@kenblock.com. Dot the name of the book is disproven my unbiased search for voter fraud in the Trump campaign. Ken, does it bother you? Does it irritate you, or does it matter to you at all that Donald Trump is still, to this day, claiming that the election was stolen? And why do you suppose he is still claiming that?

Ken Block: Well, so you have facts and then you have politics, and they can be two really different things. from a fact based perspective, there just aren’t the facts necessary to hang what happened in 2020 in terms of Trump’s loss, on, the voter fraud narrative, the facts simply aren’t there politically. I’m sure President Trump has his reasons for doing what he’s doing. Talking about it, it’s not a great winning issue, right, other than to the base. what Trump needs to do, in my opinion, as a former candidate and a data guy, he’s got to solve the one problem he has that I think truly cost him the election. And that problem was the loss of the support of, moderate m Republicans. Rhinos. Trump doesn’t like them. He told them to get lost, and they did in enough numbers to matter where. He lost Georgia by 12,000. Votes. There were 30,000 votes that had down ticket. Republicans voted on them, but the presidential race was left blank. Those were the rhinos. So, there were.

Joe Kelley: I’m sorry, Ken, would you. So, so I agree with your conclusion, not that I’ve done anywhere near the amount of work that you’ve done, but I agree with your conclusion that it is disproven and that this was not a stolen election. But would you agree with me that before the election, there were some pretty dirty deeds and shenanigans going on, with regards to the Russia hoax investigation and the hunter Biden laptop that was said to be russian misinformation? And then, of course, and then, of course, the multiple changing of state laws with regards to mail in balloting and ballot harvesting and the like.

Joe Kelley: Right?

Ken Block: So there was chaos in terms of the laws. There’s no doubt about all of that. And some of that chaos was litigated, some successfully, some not. in the aftermath of 2020, what everybody needs to understand is when it comes to ballot harvesting, I can think of very few other more terrible ways to conduct elections than ballot harvesting. Yet ballot harvesting is legal in about half the states in the country. So there’s work to be done to make our elections cleaner, better, more effective, which I get into, in the back part of the book. But one of the few things that’s worse than ballot harvesting is gerrymandering. So what I’m hoping to be able to do is have some productive conversations nationally about the things that we can and should do to clean up our elections, to solve the problems where while some states have really good data, like Nevada and Georgia, which I know is going to shock a lot of people, but their data is actually quite good. And then on the other end of the scale, you have New Jersey and New York. New Jersey’s got 25,000 registered voters with a date of birth in the 18 hundreds. Right now.

Ken Blackwell raises concerns about voting irregularities ahead of the 2020 presidential election

That’s an 8000 of those 25,000 voted in 2020.

Joe Kelley: Wow.

Ken Block: That’s not voter fraud. It’s terrible computer system. Sloppy, sloppy stuff.

Joe Kelley: Right.

Joe Kelley: What is your level of. What is your level of concern, Ken, about 2024 and cheating and. Or fraud and or sloppy, you know, data.

Ken Block: Yeah, well, none of it is really going to be cleaned up and fixed, before 24 at this point, since we’re already there. it’s a. It’s a slow moving boat to make the changes that you’ve got to make and change the direction and get some things done. you know, as far as, again, as far as ballot harvesting is concerned, states have to outlaw that individually or, and everyone’s going to chuckle a little bit, but Congress has to take some action and outlaw ballot harvesting at the federal level.

Joe Kelley: You’re right.

Ken Block: I did.

Joe Kelley: I did chuckle at that. Yes.

Ken Block: My preference, it’s, not naive, but I think that the right thing to do and the patriotic thing to do is for Congress to step up and, just like hr one, which I think passed the House but not the Senate or vice versa a couple years ago, we need a similar bill, but with more federal guidelines on cleaning up some of the things that most matter to our elections. that’s the path of, and I chuckle and I know, I know the problem. It’s the path of least resistance, because you bet your it’s better off to solve it once at the federal level than to fight the fight in 50 different states.

Joe Kelley: Yeah.

Joe Kelley: Ken, I got to tell you, I’ve never met you before, but I like you. I like the work that you’ve done. I’m, I frankly think you’re rather brave, because you know as well as I do that there are millions of Americans who don’t want to hear what, what you found or in this case, didn’t find.

Joe Kelley: Yeah.

Ken Block: I mean, it’s true. And it’s frustrating because, the facts, as I have them and as they were accepted all the way up, including to Mark Meadows, are in some ways invisible, to a lot of folks who get their news through conservative media. And, it’s frustrating because, you know, these aren’t opinions. This isn’t subjective stuff. This is the way it was. and it’s important to understand it, and it’s important to sort of leave 2020 behind at this point, and let’s all get together and figure out, and we can’t affect 2024, not in a meaningful way, because it’s just too close to the election at this point. But we really need to get together, and do the right thing and modernize our elections and solve some of the pure insanity that’s out there. And you and I haven’t even gotten into that element of the conversation. But, you know, there’s, there’s some really, there’s some really crazy stuff from states, like Florida and Pennsylvania, Pennsylvania, New York and California, which, provide their elections data for pretty much free, compared to Alabama that charges $37,000 for the same data.

Joe Kelley: Right.

Ken Block: I mean, it’s just, you and I could talk for 3 hours about that kind of unevenness. and my favorite example of all is the scenario where someone votes early by mail, let’s say, two weeks before the election, and then dies before the election. What happens to that vote?

Joe Kelley: Sure.

Joe Kelley: Right.

Ken Block: Well, the answer is, it depends on where you live.

Joe Kelley: That’s interesting.

Joe Kelley: Ken.

Joe Kelley: I gotta. I do. You’re right. We could talk about this for 3 hours, and honestly, I would love nothing more. but I’m flat out, out of time here.

Ken Block conducted an unbiased search for voter fraud for the Trump campaign

Ken Block. You can go to Kenblock.com. I assume this is on Amazon and anywhere else.

Joe Kelley: You got it? Yeah.

Joe Kelley: The name of the book is disproven. My unbiased search for voter fraud for the Trump campaign. The data that showed why he lost and how we could improve our election. Author and political, candidate and statistician, Ken Block. Ken, thank you so much.

Joe Kelley: Great. Thank you.